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Rev. Numata:

As Rev. Fukuyama mentioned, the teaching of Bakku Yoraku (Getting rid of suffering and providing relief) is significant in Buddhism. There are also various Buddhist technical terms such as Shō Yoku Chi Soku (少欲知足) which means “to have a little desire and be satisfied with a little gain,” but how do you teach Buddhism to young people?

Rev. Nara:

I believe that we need to consider the way in which we explain the teachings to them. For instance, there is the commonly used Buddhist term “Four Noble Truths” which means “suffering,” “the cause of suffering,” “the cessation of suffering,” and “the Eightfold Path to the cessation of suffering.”

Using those explanations, this term is understandable. However, when I was discussing this term with a foreigner who could read Kanbun (Classical Chinese), I realized that he understood the meaning of “cessation (滅)” in this context to mean “annihilate” which would thereby mean “zero.” Certainly, cessation means to annihilate. However it is impossible that we can annihilate our desires or can make our passions “zero.” Unless we explain the meaning of “cessation,” those unfamiliar with Buddhism would probably misunderstand this most basic concept of Buddhism.

Also, I am often asked by young Japanese, “Does Buddhism deny all our desires?” This statement is most certainly not true.

The original word for “cessation (滅)” is nirodha in Sanskrit, which does not mean to remove. It means “to shut out” or “to block.” The nuance of nirodha is to stop the water of a river with something. Therefore “cessation (滅)” does not mean to make our desires ZERO, but it means to restraint our desires which causes our suffering and to try not to make our desire multiply. In other words, “cessation (滅)” does not mean to remove our desires itself, but to stop the work of suffering.

Rev. Numata:

That’s the meaning of “Shō Yoku Chi Soku (少欲知足),” to have a little desire and to be satisfied with a little gain), doesn’t it?

Rev. Nara:

Yes. If Shō Yoku (a little desire) means to make our desire ZERO, any desires would be deleted. But, here, Shō Yoku means to control our desire. Accordingly, Chi Soku (to be satisfied with a little gain) has its own meaning as well.

Although we use some Buddhist technical terms such as Bonnō Soku Bodai (煩悩即菩提) which means “evil passions are themselves enlightenment” and “the cessation of blind passion,” these words can be misunderstood if we only take their literal meanings. Maybe I should write a book to rid the misunderstanding of Buddhist terms.

Rev. Numata:

It is also very easy to misunderstand the term “blind passion.” If we completely deny our blind passions, then we can’t exist here.

Rev. Nara:

If we aspire to help young people in the contemporary society to listen the teachings of Buddha, we need to consider new explanation methods for them.

Rev. Numata:

The term Shō Yoku Chi Soku is linked to our happiness. If we don’t understand Chi Soku, then our hearts will be like the hungry ghosts in Buddhism. In our current worldwide financial crisis, I think we can say that the fundamental cause is because our desires are never satisfied.

It is my heartfelt wish that I want to spread a basic understanding of Buddhism through various means. In that regard, I am engaged in the promotion of Buddhist music as one of the promotion activities for advancing Buddhism.

Rev. Inagaki:

As I had mentioned earlier, at a previous Jodo Shinshu conference in Europe, the Buddhist name ceremony called Kikyōshiki was performed. At this ceremony, people received their Dharma name. At that time, everyone at the conference chanted the sutra Rokuji Riasan (六時礼讃) or “Worshipping and praising six times in a day” before opening the conference. This teaching is from Master Shan-tao’s writing called “Ōjōraisan” (Hymns of Praise Concerning Birth) and is often used by the Pure Land Schools. While I was chanting this sutra, I realized that a German woman was crying. When I asked her why she was crying, she said that she was moved by the beautifulness of chanting. After five years, I re-encountered her again and asked her if she still remembered that chanting which moved her so deeply and she told me that she still remembered that chant and its effect on her.

Bukkyo Dendo Kyokai has been focusing on Buddhist music, and I think this has a huge meaning for the present society. I believe that the chanting of Buddhist hymns should be acceptable to everyone in the world.

Rev. Numata:

Religion is composed of a logical side and an emotional side. But I think that religious emotion will lead us to spiritual fulfillment. In other words, we can gain a deep religious experience through music.

Rev. Inagaki:

Each of the Japanese Buddhist schools have their own Buddhist rituals, but there are no complicated rituals outside of Japan. As I talked about Kikyōshiki earlier, a simple ritual can become a very delightful and meaningful experience for overseas people. Buddhist rituals are often criticized as being unnecessary in Japan, however even a formal ritual like kikyōshiki has a profound meaning in foreign countries.

Rev. Numata:

It is my understanding that Japanese Buddhism is like a table with the four legs being the Tendai school, the Shingon School, the Pure Land school, and the Zen school. I think that Zen and Nembutsu (reciting the name of Buddha) are the most logical among the four.

Although Dr. D.T. Suzuki’s research emphasized Zen, he once wrote a book entitled “Introduction to Shin Buddhism” (Shinshu Nyūmon) in his later life. In addition, the late Rev. Shojun Bando who used be a BDK researcher, mentioned that there is a commonality in the teachings of Dogen and Shinran.

Rev. Bando’s temple is called Hōonji Temple which was built by one of Shinran’s original 24 disciples. In this temple, the Amida Buddha statue and the Shinran Shonin statue are enshrined in the same line. Surprisingly, Shinran’s statue has Hossu (a short staff of wood or bamboo with bundled hair often wielded by a Zen monk) in his hand. For this statue, Rev. Bando speculated that Shinran must have met Dogen when he lived in Kyoto, and this Hossu was a gift from Dogen.

Rev. Inagaki:

I’ve also heard from Rev. Bando that Dogen gave Shinran that Hossu.

Rev. Numata:

I also heard a different story from Rev. Bando that Shinran might have attended Dogen’s funeral.

Rev. Fukuyama:

Dogen, Honen, and Shinran lived in the same era, so they might have communicated with each other but this might just my imagination speaking since there is no historical proof.

Rev. Inagaki:

In Japan, we consider that Zen and Nembutsu teachings are different, but this does not hold true in foreign countries. Actually Zen and Nembutsu are relating to each other and share common concepts.

Rev. Numata:

At the Washington D.C. Ekoji temple which BDK supports, there is a Nembutsu meditation practice whereby we sit on chairs and do meditation after reciting the name of Amida Buddha. I have heard that this style of meditation has been well accepted in America.

Rev. Inagaki:

I used to do meditation at the British Association of Shin Buddhism in London. We did not do a strict meditation practice, but just closed our eyes and sat. Then, people listened to my Dharma speech with a very tranquil heart. Meditation is a practice that has been continuing from the time of Shakamuni, so perhaps this is a good productive way to listen to the teaching of Buddha.

Rev. Nara:

I personally believe that Zen and Nembutsu lead us to the same world even though their entrances are quite different. To put it quite simply, Nembutsu is in the world of naturalness. Nembutsu is not born from one’s effort. It is a calling from Amida Buddha. I think this is the same as meditation.

Dogen said that “To learn the way of Buddha is to learn ourselves, to learn ourselves is to forget ourselves.” Let me explains the term “to forget ourselves.” If we do meditation, then the self that appears is not the egoistic self, but it is the self like the Buddha, the self that has left the ego. In other words, the world of naturalness called Jinen Hōni (自然法爾) and the world of Dogen are the same world of “to forget ourselves.” I believe that meditation and Nembutsu are the practices that lead us to the absoluteness of ourselves. In this context, there is a common point in the both of them.

Furthermore, the term Jō (定) or “meditation/concentration” commonly appears in “the Four Noble Truths,” the “Eightfold Noble Paths” and “the Six Paramitas.” The term Dhyāna (禅定) or Zenjō in Japanese can also mean “meditation or concentration.” From the doctrinal perspective, Jō (定) means “meditation,” therefore Nembutsu is not recognized as Dhyāna.

However, when we consider the Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Noble Paths in the context of our real world, Jō (定) in the Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Noble Paths directs us to non-egoistic world. I think this is similar to Nembutsu. Of course, this is too sweeping of an interpretation from the doctrinal perspective, so I cannot insist on this matter. But the practice that Shakyamuni preached are the teachings which lead us to the anti-egoistic world.

Rev. Numata:

Both schools (Jodo Shinshu and Soto Zen) are of the Mahayana lineage which strives for the path to break the shell of our self-centered mind, so we need to reconsider the common points between meditation and the Nembutsu.

Rev. Nara has talked about meditation from the perspective of Buddhist studies, but what do you think about it, Rev. Fukuyama? You are actually doing meditation at Eiheiji temple, but do you think that there is a difference between the academic interpretation and realistic interpretation?

Rev. Fukuyama:

I do not think there is a difference. To be honest with you, I wanted to be a scholar of Buddhism if possible. However, because of my lack of endeavor, I assumed a position which trains the Sangha now, but I have some troubles with my Dharma talk since I am not that familiar with many Buddhist technical terms.

Although I would like to explain the teachings of Master Dogen through texts such as Shobogenzō, I cannot do that very well. I regret that I did not study hard enough. My downfall can be best expressed in the saying: “We finally realize the way in the evening.”

Rev. Nara:

I do not think that you need to know special Buddhist terms to explain the Dharma since you have been living in the Dharma until now. I believe it is best for you to talk about Buddhism with your own words, born out of your own Buddhist life experience.

What is a problem with grand scholars like me is that we always talk from a logic standpoint first, but because everyone has their own logic, we often end up arguing as a result.

We need to emphasize how to receive the teachings of Buddha in our actual life from the position of scholars.

Rev. Numata:

Buddhism has two sides; the logic side and the belief side. From the belief side, Rev. Fukuyama’s practice and understanding means so much. Meanwhile, there are some people who want to discuss the teaching logically. So both sides are important.

Rev. Fukuyama:

About 100 young monks come up to the mountain to train themselves every year. Each of them has their own questions, but I have been able to handle their questions so far. However I assume that I will not be able to understand their problems in the near future because of my lack of studying Buddhism. There are some monks who take charge of the new young monks, so I am thinking that I’d better not stir up too much commotion and leave everything to them.

As I mentioned before, I tried so hard to study Buddhism to become a scholar. However, my knowledge on Buddhist studies was completely denied at Eiheiji temple. At first, I doubted myself since I was told that “not establishing words” and “just sitting” were my only responsibilities. In other words, what I studied was denied. I am sure that present day young monks are also having the same question.

Rev. Nara:

I personally believe that it is very significant to do traditional practice without voicing any complaints. Otherwise, we will lose the practical experience. The logic that you understand in your brain is just logic and is not related with our real life.

Humans like to think that they can think logically. But if you are a very eager practitioner, you will be able to find the logic in your experience later. What is important is the experience.

Rev. Numata:

The first person that Rev. Nara mentioned previously (PARTⅡ) means my body. All Buddhist schools recite “if we do not crossover to the Truth in the present life, in what life shall we cross over?.” What we should focus on is the “we” that lives with teaching of Buddha.

Can you please share with us some ideas of what you feel BDK should be doing from now on.

Rev. Nara:

I would like you to sponsor seminars to consider how we can explain Buddhist terms in the present world without creating misunderstanding for terms such as 滅 (see more in PART Ⅱ). I can think of at least 30 major terms that need to be reconsidered. It would be wonderful if BDK could publish this kind of book in the future.

Rev. Numata:

Thank you very much for your comments. Then, Rev. Inagaki, may we please have your final comment.

Rev. Inagaki:

Previously, I chaired the European Shin conference which was held at the Ekoji Temple in Germany. It was a wonderful temple. I would like you to promote the spread of Buddhism in Europe through this temple. Also, I recommend you use Buddhist music as a way to promote Buddhism. To provide various opportunities for the westerner to come in contact with Buddhism is very effective.

Rev. Numata::

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts. Your continuous support and assistance will be greatly appreciated.

End.